Finding the Purpose in Your Work

Sue: Hello, and welcome fellow Awsomoligists to Awsomology. I'm Sue.

Ben: And I'm Ben. And in this episode, we'll be talking about that big word purpose and how we can find it in the work we do.

Sue: Yes. We're back. Woooh. I always get so excited talking about this book project.

As we have been discussing it for the year. And I mean, we made the big promise last eps last first episode of this year, not the last episode. Right. But the last episode like this, that we're going to write a book. And then we got to actually do the work of figuring out how we were going to do that.

Ben: Mhmm.

Sue: And every time we talk about it, it gets more exciting for me.

Ben: Right.

Sue: And we have an outline.

Ben: Such a big deal.

Sue: Such a big deal. I mean, We went from zero to something.

Ben: Yeah. We went from zero to idea to talking about it to words words on a page.

Sue: Words. So we have an outline and we have words on a page. I have written maybe a page and a half.

Ben: Sweet.

Sue: I know. So it's real. And it feels amazing. And we wanted to start talking about where this seems to be heading.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: And that, we are talking about purpose in three big buckets.

Ben: Mhmm.

Sue: Layers of, like, an onion, like an ogre, and a parfait, and an onion.

Ben: Yep.

Sue: There's layers.

Ben: I'll take the parfait. I'm hungry now. Thank you.

Sue: Well, as we know, ain't nobody said they don't like I don't like me no parfait. So those three big buckets are your purpose as a human being. The purpose of the organization you're working in and the purpose behind what you do in your job.

Ben: Yeah. So So that's not big enough?

Sue: No. No. Why?

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: The question... We're just going to answer the question why in this book. And then, you know?

Ben: I'm really confident that at some point in time, the purpose in life is gonna come out.

Sue: Yeah. We should. We should. The reason all of us are here.

Ben: ... we'll finally solve that one for everyone...

Sue: Mhmm. Mhmm.

Ben: Well, it's funny you mentioned the word why because, like, as I think of these three big buckets. Right? Like, I I kind of feel like we're touching on the maybe semi cliche term of, like, starting with your why, and I say semi cliche. I think we've all heard, like, you know, Simon Sinek, you know, begin with why and all all that stuff. Enough. But I think the fact that we've been talking about things like the purpose of life since humans were, you know, cognizant enough to ask those questions to, like, you know, even today, people like Simon Synek and folks writing books, talking about why, and beginning with purpose and all of these things.

That's why I call it, like, semi cliche because it's something that while we might see it as cliche or whatever, we're still working on it.

Sue: Right.

Ben: You know, it's going to be cliche for forever. And, right? You know, so So and and I'm okay with that because it I think as a as a marketer in particular, like, one of our challenges constantly is doing stuff that original, you know, and that people haven't thought of before or seen before, but we know that there's just so much out there that it's really, really tough to do, like, something completely original or something that doesn't sound or look or taste like something that somebody else has done before. Right?

And so I think that there might that's that's like a question that I have as I'm thinking about what shape this is gonna take. And are these Are these three buckets, the right buckets? So I'm like, people have done this book before, you know, or never. But I think our interesting perspective of Wolf just one, who we are as different people, you and I being different people from each other, you and I being different people from everyone else on the planet.

Sue: You know, Except that one lady who sounds just like me.

Ben: Yeah. Which I'm telling you, we're gonna we got a future guest taking shape there.

Also, you know, the fact that we'll be doing this through the marketing lens, we'll be doing it through the lens of a marketing company that's a little different in we're a CUSO and have both, like, this niche in the credit union industry, but also servicing other industries. So I think, like, once you add in, like, the variety that comes with us as humans and the work that we do, it'll be not cliche. It won't just be, you know, a book that you've read before.

Kind of thing, you know, and that that's really exciting to me.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And I am really interesting interesting. I'm- I'm really interested.

Ben: You are so interesting.

Sue: (Laughs) But also I'm interested to see how it develops as we've talked about, one of the conversations we've had, and I don't think we had it on mic. So now we'll have it on mic is that there is an intersection between what we do as marketers that we think we would be able to we're going to be able to describe this in a way that essentially says, this is what we're doing. This is the purpose from here to here to here, you know, down to that social media posts that you're doing today.

Ben: Mhmm.

Sue: And then also if you are if you are adjusting the calipers on a SUV in the Chevy plant.

Ben: Very specific.

Sue: Yes. Yes. I don't know what calipers are, but let's just say that that's something that exists and cars still.

Ben: It sure is.

Sue: That we can correlate these the same stream of thought.

Ben: With what you're doing. Yeah.

Sue: Or if you are, I don't know, a vet tech. I don't need to name every job that exists but you get the idea that to take, like, right down to that minute thing minute thing that we do and be able to correlate it to really what anyone does.

Ben: Right. Yeah.

Sue: As best we can.

Ben: Yeah. Right.

Yeah. So set another way or in summary while we might be talking specifically to marketers because that's who we are or maybe our experiences that we share, are, you know, from the marketing space or whatever.

Through this, purpose filter that we're putting everything through, it'll be applicable and understandable, by anyone.

Sue: Yeah. So I will be interested to see how we develop that to make it clear to people. Because I don't want to come out at the end of this with a marketing book.

Ben: Right.

Sue: Yeah. You know, I mean, it will be great We are a marketing company... (laughs)

Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

Sue: And we should definitely...

Ben: Well, and I think because of that, it's going to be a marketing book.

Like, what, you know, however, we want it to cater to broader audience. Like, it's it's gonna be a marketing book, but I do think that we wanna, you know, help as many people as we can, not that it's gonna be like a help book, self help or anything like that. But, we want more than just marketers to get value from it. So I think the fact that we are already before we've written more than a page and a half, establish that as something that we wanna do, even though it might have plenty of marketing flavor throughout it. It's gonna be tasty to a whole lot of other people. Yeah.

Sue: That was... you crushed that in terms of an analogy.

Ben: Thanks.

Sue: I really now I have to do this ham handed transition. I'm right on the heels of that hot hot take.

Ben: Oh, man. That's good.

Sue: So even though our all three facets of purpose are going to be in that order, our purpose as humans, the purpose behind the organization and the purpose in the task in your job.

I had this maybe bad idea. I don't know. We'll see. I've written a page and a half. I wanna point that out right now. As we question if I'm having bad ideas, that I wanted to write them backwards because I think that is how people approach these things in their career. They think first about why am I doing this thing in my job or at least understanding the steps in a process while I have to do this so that that thing can happen.

And then they then you learn what the organization is trying to do.

And then finally, maybe as you age, I think they're probably maybe that's overgeneralization.

But I don't think you start work at sixteen and say, like, what is my life's purpose?

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: Now I do think there are people that do.

Ben: Mhmm. Sure. Yeah.

Sue: But I think in general, it's like I make the money to get the things to do the stuff. Yeah.

And then it is only after you go into your career a little bit that you realize, oh, there's probably more to this than getting the things and doing the stuff.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: There's probably a bigger purpose.

So Yeah. I I want I wanted to and I made this argument to you, and I honestly even sitting here today, I am not sure if it's a good idea. Yeah. But it feels it felt like that was the way for me to approach it.

Ben: Mhmm.

Sue: To start with the task.

And move backwards.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: Yeah.

Ben: And as unsure as you might be that it's a good idea or not, I stand by my response that it is a good idea.

Before I dive a little bit deeper into that, and, move on with my, next cliche that I wanted to reference.

I just have to reflect a little bit on what you just said in that, something that that I really haven't thought of at this point is you know, that that person that's sixteen that has thought about, you know, what's the purpose in life or that person that's sixteen that hasn't thought about that and everything in between, and the fact that those differences will exist for seventeen year olds, eighteen year olds, thirty year olds, fifty year old that might be reading this book. It's interesting to think about how what we put together is just going to so naturally impact people differently based on so many differences.

Right?

Sue: Mhhm.

Ben: Their age or occupation, whether they're in marketing or not, whether they've asked that question of themselves or not, whether they've understood that job can be more than make the money to get the stuff, you know, and so I don't know. That's just kind of a little mind blowing, maybe a little intimidating to me to think about how no matter what we do, no matter how, beneficial, purposeful, honest, organic, all the words this thing might wind up being, like, it's just gonna hit people differently based on countless number of variables as to who they are, why they are, what they're doing, all those things, you know.

Sue: Right.

Ben: And it's scary.

It's a little scary to think about. So I'm gonna move on. But it's good.

Sue: It's fun scary. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun scary.

Ben: So, yeah, you get back to the idea of whether or not this is a good idea. Right?

To me, it just brings another cliche to mind, the old chicken or the egg. Right? Like, which way do you do it? Right, from the beginning to the back, do you start with the end and work backwards? I really think it's like a chicken or the egg kind of thing. No one really knows, and it's, no wrong answer. Right?

But I do think that if I had to choose, and, of course, maybe I'm a little influence by the proposal and the fact that we're, you know, co-writing this thing that I would just say, yes, Sue. Let's do it that way because I don't wanna fight with you on that.

Sue: That's, you know, that's a great motivation. And you have that in common with my husband. You're the two people in the world that are just saying, you know what? This will keep me from having to fight with her.

Ben: No. No. No. I mean, does that ever happen? Sure, Sue. There's probably no no denying it. But For this, what we're talking about today, the book, I think that there's a ton of reason to do it this way.

And especially as we're talking about things like purpose and why.

Again, here we go cliche, but, like, begin with the end in mind. Right? Right. So, like, Just knowing that we're talking about purpose and asking ourselves the question, why?

So often, to start there makes a whole lot of sense. Right? So, it actually kind of feels like it would be almost like unfair, like, counterproductive to do it the other way.

If we haven't thought about our own purpose.

Sue: Right.

Ben: And our own why when we're gonna be writing a book that's gonna, like, focus so much on that. You know what I mean?

Sue: Right.

Ben: So if if for no other reason, then, to give us a little bit of peace about whether or not this is the right way. Like, I think those are That's a reason. Or those are a couple of reasons as to why I, like we should just do it this way and feel good about it.

Sue: Yeah. Yeah. And there is a certain aspect, of fear for me that we would lose it it sounds so neatly compact.

First of all, I was surprised how quickly that our outline came together.

Right? And it right now, I- it really appeals to me to have this neatly compact concept.

And part of what I fear is if we start at the beginning, that it will that we don't arrive where we want to arrive.

Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like a land, the plane, sort of, like, yeah.

Sue: Yeah.

But but also there is a quote from one of my favorite- favorite authors, Douglas Adams, Let me butcher it. And it's something it's something like I didn't arrive where I plan to arrive, but I think I think I'm where I need to be.

Ben: Yeah. Okay.

Sue: Right? So there's this concept of maybe you planned on something but you didn't get there.

But you still ended up where you should be.

ben: Yeah. Right.

So Yeah. Those are those two. Why don't I keep arguing this in my despite the fact that, I have every everything I need to just go ahead and-

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: ..Be fine.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: Why am I not fine? Let's start there.

Ben: That's for another show.

Sue: That's a whole... Join for our sixteen hour mini series.

Ben: Yeah. No. Hey, if that's how we feel at the end of this thing, like, hey, we thought we were going this place. We arrived at this other, and we feel awesome about it.

I'm down. I'll sign up for that. You know?

Sue: K. Good.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: Because I think that's a possibility.

Ben: For sure. Yeah. Absolutely.

Okay. Well, it's, it's worth talking a little bit about how we think you find purpose in, in each task, right, the task that you do for your job.

So what does that mean for you?

Sue: I'm really glad you asked.

Ben: Oh, I'm sure you are.

Sue: This- This is a thing I think a lot about, and sometimes I'm a little hard on myself, because I think people get- I have the perception that people have the perception that I overthink it. Overthink the purpose of it. But in reality, no matter what what we are trying to do as marketers, I I believe that our first question should always be why are we doing this?

Ben: Mhmm.

Sue: And I think that we get into a rut sometimes.

It's really easy, especially, you know, when we're when you work in a space where you're working, you know, for example, our biggest client who we, are founding credit union you... you get into a space where you are just doing the same things over and over and over and over again. And sometimes- Sometimes you have worked through the purpose five, ten, fifteen years ago. But you haven't stopped and rethought.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: About purpose. Yeah. Or how maybe the the economy, pop culture, anything that could have influenced this finished product has changed your purpose.

Ben: Mhmm.

Sue: So I always think the purpose behind what you're doing is important, and it's something that I really pride myself on when we're talking, you know, the really specific task that I do in terms of content writing, for example.

I always approach those things with, you know, what is What is the reader need from this? That's the purpose. Yeah. What I'm trying to tell you, nobody, you know, I I'm you know I'm gonna try and be too clever. There's gonna be parenthesis.

There's gonna be ellipses. We know all of that's going to happen.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: But I'm not the point. The reader's the point. Yeah. And to understand the purpose for them, is the point of doing the thing. And that applies whether we're doing blog content and thinking about, like, the purpose behind helping people through what we can do, that applies, you know, one of one of the things that I have done a myriad of in my career is something as simple as a notice, a letter to tell people a thing is happening.

Ben: Right.

Sue: And, I think something like a notice from a financial institution, it is really easy to stop at that idea of what we have to tell them.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: And to not take that extra step to say the purpose of this is so that they know it.

Ben: Right.

Sue: Not because we want to tell them. But the end goal is for them to see it understand it and and feel and and to continue what we want our brand to feel like to this person. And that's when that's where something like the brand voice comes in.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: Right? Yeah. Say because we have really specific ideas about who is this person that is the brand voice. Well, the purpose behind this notification should always include that brand voice communicating in the way that we want it to consistently.

I I trailed off at the end there, and I realized that now.

But that's what I think about when I think about purpose.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: At a task level.

Ben: Right. Well, and, you know, while it might not be the sexiest example of our work, writing a notice, You know, I think it's a good one to use when we're talking about something like purpose because sometimes it can be tough to, like, feel that connection all the time. You know what I mean? And you know, yeah, the thing that we need them to know can sometimes be that, you know, surface level purpose of said notice.

You know what I mean? But I think the constant challenge that we have is to even dive deeper and say, okay, what happens to that person because they know the thing that they need to know.

Sue: Exactly.

Maybe they completely avoid a fraud situation that saves them.

Who knows? Maybe their whole livelihood, maybe a couple bucks, you know, whatever. And I think when you look at things at that next level, you know, when you really dig into real purpose, It's really tough for, darn near any task, darn near any job to feel less than crucial.

Sue: Right.

Ben: I don't think that we need to dive into purpose in a way that makes everything feel super heavy and make us all feel like we need, you know, need to put a cape on and be a superhero all the time or whatever. But you know, I think it does contribute to fulfillment and people's happiness and, you know, seeing purpose in who you are as a person in your organization. That thing that you're doing, those three buckets that we've been talking about, you know. So-

Sue: Right.

Ben: Yeah. I think it's I think it's super important. I think that, Maybe the trail off was because we were talking about a notice. I don't know.

Sue: Yeah. That could be that could be but I I've I have so many opinions out about notices. Yeah. You know? So many opinions.

Ben: She's got a book of opinions.

Sue: That's that's another book.

That's the second book. Right. Just my opinion.

Ben: Yeah. (laughs)

Sue: But fine okay. Final thought, I swear. Yeah. It's okay. On the notice thing.

Just because I this is one of those things that I think about a lot and I don't know if I communicate to other people around me enough.

Which is to say the reason I believe so strongly in applying purpose to those things is always remembering that there is a human being on the other end of that.

Ben: Right.

And so it is it is the purpose is multifaceted, which is apparently just a phrase I'm gonna use a lot of.

Yes. It is that we have to tell them a thing, but also to have consideration for how- What does that mean for them to get told it? Yeah. Does it end from a practical level how can they what is actionable for them and what does it mean emotionally? And I think that's that's probably the more important point, I I don't really communicate to people enough. Like, there's an emotional level to everything we do.

And, to find purpose in finding- finding and reckoning with other people's emotion on something like, like a notice about how accounts are changing.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: That might be I think what people don't realize is for us that is a practical thing to say, here's this. This is what this is. That's what it's gonna be.

But we also don't know who is going to pick up that notice and where they are in their journey? And, like, is that notice me saying, here's what it is. That's what it's gonna be. You have no choice, is there this chance that that is, like, the last straw to somebody to say, like, oh, My whole life is meaningless. I have no power. You don't want you don't want to be that person. So, yeah, that is very worst case scenario.

Ben: Right. Yeah.

Sue: But also if you can make if you can take something like that, which people may perceive negatively anyway.

Ben: Mhmm.

And, turn it around for them. Why wouldn't we?

Ben: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Well, and, you know, you went pretty extreme worst case scenario for sure.

But, I mean, let's go let's go worst case scenario from a business perspective. Right? Like, say things just haven't been ideal for that client, that member, that customer, whatever. And, yeah, this thing that you could just rattle off boilerplate and get it out so that people understand the very basics of what they need to understand.

You know, that that definitely could be enough for them to just say another change, alright, whatever. Screw it. I'm done.

Sue: Mhmm.

Ben: You know, that's it. Last straw, whatever. Even though And really, I think that it'd be really easy for that to happen in a case where the change is actually something that's good for them. But because of the way that you wrote it, the way that you know, it was presented, maybe the timing of it, who knows a number of factors.

It could be that last straw kind of thing, you know, and So, you know, we're talking about, like, retention there. Another thing that is an opportunity that I don't think is considered enough in, you know, all of our work, but particularly those things that are perceived as the least sexy work or least important is the opportunity for everything to be a differentiator.

You know? So, I mean, you've got an opportunity to talk to your member. Or your potential member, your your client, your customer, make the most of it every time that you can, and- and I say that knowing that we don't have the time or the resources or the money to do it every single time. But every time that we can, we should because we might- That might be the opportunity that we have to prove to someone that we're different and keep them or gain them or keep them around for a little longer.

Keep them forever. Who knows? Turn them into an advocate that brings someone else in, you know. So, those are those are huge opportunities that I don't think you can overlook because then you do just kind of sound like everyone else?

Sue: Mhmm.

Ben: That's how you're gonna be heard, and you're gonna be easy to move on from just like everyone else, you know.

Sue: Right.

Ben: So yeah.

I think what you're saying has a lot of, validity to it, and I totally can understand why people that maybe ask why too often or, start with that, you know, what is what's the purpose of this thing question often or all the time can be heard as a toddler asking why too many times.

You know what I mean?

I can understand why people are like, doesn't matter. Just do it. You know? Totally get it.

But, like, to sound a little dramatic, like, shame on you. Like, that can't be a response to a super important question. Why are we doing this thing?

Sue: Yeah. And and also PS, don't answer kids that way. Yeah. Because they genuinely don't know.

Ben: Right. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah.

I have never ever responded that way to a toddler. Just let No.

Sue: Just Well, I feel like maybe you are. That's what I'm concerned about here. Why are you talking to toddlers like that?

Ben: That's another episode.

Sue: Okay. Okay. Fine. Another series.

Ben: Yeah.

So let me ask you a question.

Ben: Hit me.

Are you a person who has always sort of sought the purpose of what you're doing or is that something you matured in?

Sue: Yeah.

Ben: I think that the answer to the question is definitely some version of that's what I'm or matured into. Learning, I think, has gotten me there.

Probably along with a whole bunch of other factors like aging and life experiences and things like that.

Sue: Are you are you aging?

Ben: Aren't we all, Sue?

Aren't we all? But the I think another answer to the question is not always, that hasn't always been something that I've I've done and I think that it depends on the kind of work that I'm doing. I think that there's some kinds of work that I've you know, as long as I can remember, have felt real purpose in and, you know, put, you know, that extra into it to make sure that the purpose was understood and, you know, asked more questions and all those things.

But some of that not sexy work, I think is the work that definitely earlier on in my career. I was like, to, like, get the thing done. You know, like, who cares? Nobody cares about this thing, but then, you know, through through some learning, through some life experience, probably even without me acknowledging it, me receipt being not being that human on the other end of some of that stuff has made me realize like, oh, Like, that could have been better.

Come on. X company, only to, like, look myself in the mirror and be like, oh, shoot. I actually do that same kinda crap. You know?

So so yeah. So, you know, some version of, you know, learned or, you know, grew into it matured into it for sure. But I, you know, like, a a category of work that I think I've, always are for as long as I can remember, put a ton of purpose into is like design and creative.

You know?

Sue: Mhmm.

Ben: That fills my heart, fills my cup, makes my brain happy.

You know, that that's something that I think is a strength of mine, right, connecting something visual to what somebody- somebody's trying to do by creating that thing. And, so it's just more easy and natural for me to do that. And I think that's, you know, why we have different kinds of people on our teams and why organizations have different kinds of people that make them up because there are other people that probably see the stuff that I put a lot of extra thought and caring too. And they're like, you know, they have the just do the thing.

Like, who cares kind of feeling about it? You know what I mean? Let's make sure that this notice is exactly what it needs to be. You know what I mean?

So Yeah.

How about you?

Sue: I well, I am definitely a Why-er. You know that. Yeah.

And so as I try and think back, I I am confident that for as long as I had to do anything, (laughs) Right? Like from chores for my parents, all the way into the working world.

There is something innately in me that wanted to know, maybe not the larger purpose, but at least why why this way or why this thing or what is why am I doing this thing right now? As opposed to that thing. Yeah. And just really being that toddler.

That's like, why, why, why, why, why, why, why.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: Why are we doing that? And I also know that that helps me learn.

Right? So, when we look at something like a a procedure, which I'm a real fan of.

The procedures that helped me that helped me learn to do something and not have the procedure in front of me are the ones that say you're going to do this because that because this leads to the next step, and that leads to this step. And, you know, and they are rather than just do this, do this, do this, do this, do this. So I know it's asking why as a way I learn. Yeah. And so, I I am confident that throughout my entire life, that is a thing I've done. Now the higher purpose part of it I think, I I think I have never been as clear with it. As I am now. Right?

But it has always been there because I- I am someone who who has for a long time questioned, like, my larger purpose in the world.

Ben: Sure.

Sue: Yeah.

And, you know, never been, like, never really been one to take the simple answer on something and, like, you get the job to make the money to buy the things. Like, that has never been part of my worldview.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: It's more It's always been and on, you know, thinking back to when I was much younger, to the level of, like, I remember thinking, like, how how famous. This is a I hate to admit this and then have it recorded. How famous can I be? Right?

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: How big can my life be rather than wouldn't it be nice if I could reach that? Is, like, how big can this be? Yeah. And what is this huge purpose?

That is grander than something else for other people.

Ben: Mhmm.

So Peeling back a little curtain on Sue Campbell.

Sue: Yeah. Good. Yeah. That's embarrassing. But, you know, plenty of you know, I bring, as you know, plenty of delusion at any point.

Sue: Delusion, vision.

Yeah. I like to think that those are really interrelated.

Ben: Yeah.

Sue: Delusion and vision.

Ben: Yeah. Wow. That's, gosh. I don't I don't even know where to go.

Sue: Yeah.

No. I I really I screwed up the whole flow by being a delusional mess for just a minute and And you're welcome.

Ben: Yeah. Thank you.

Sue: By that. By the way. Thank you. Yeah. Well It's all for the likes, bro.

Ben: You know what? Yeah. Right. Right.

I guess maybe what I'll just say to put a button on that is, I think that the people that have had those moments in life that maybe have made them ask why at a time when they wouldn't have typically or, have the vision or the delusion to expect more of themselves or, you know, try to get to some other place. Are the lucky ones. And the people that haven't had that moment, either, I don't know, the time just hasn't come for them yet. Something else in life hasn't happened to maybe force them into it, or they're just, I don't know, gonna be bummed, living a life without Yeah. Feeling that because Yeah. Well, it might make some things messy because it raises a whole bunch of questions inside your brain and to look at things in ways that you never did before.

I think we get to do the cool stuff after we've asked those questions or-

Sue: Right.

Ben: Had those thoughts. So-

Sue: Yeah.

That's a nice way to summarize it. Yeah. I I like how and you didn't just do that now. I think you'd do this This is maybe one of your great gifts, how you do manage for the people listening to the two of us talk, meetings, and other places.

To reel me back down. And she'll be like, no. As you can see, everyone, she's really quite sane. (both laugh)

And I love that about you. So thank you.

Ben: So happy to have you.

Sue: So happy to Well, before we give away the whole book.

Ben: Right.

Which will be a challenge for, like, every episode of this one.

Sue: Yeah. Yeah.

Ben: But That's okay. We talked we did for the listener. We did talk a little bit about that. Like, oh, as we're talking about the podcast, like, how much do we share?

How much do we not share? And I think that we'll just get more comfortable with knowing what that is as we go. And part of the reason we're doing it this way is to have some of this natural, maybe open ended, unplanned conversation while it's recorded to help us develop some content. So that's all part of the part of the plan too.

Sue: Yeah. Yeah. Just it's very important. Everyone knows it's part of the plan. It's all part of the plan.

Ben: Trust the process, everyone.

Sue: Trust the process.

Ben: For sure.

Sue: We should wrap up.

Ben: We should.

Sue: We are very excited listener that you are joining us on this journey. If you are new or newer or new wish, We have lots and lots of episodes. This is our sixth season of the podcast? So we have five whole seasons. Should go could go back and check out. You can always learn more about us and what we've talked about in the past and what we do and any number of my delusions At our website.

Exclamation exclamation CUSO dot com. And check us out at the blog exclamation CUSO dot com slash blog.

Ben: You got it. I'm gonna go a little last script here and just make a plug for our other episodes where we usually have a guest.

Sue: Oh, yeah.

Ben: We're talking about something specific to marketing.

So if you are a listener that's made it this far and you're interested in this book journey, Yes. Thank you, as you said.

But also, like, check out that other stuff too because, Anne, we've that's a pretty awesome guest on in the last.

Six months, but also, like, some really great ones over the years too. So, yeah, check that stuff out. Thanks everyone for being here listening to whichever episodes you listen to.

We will see you next time. Be awesome.

Bye bye.

The Awsomology podcast is a production of exclamation services. Thanks to Nick Malovrh for sound production and Kylie Ganther for our cover artwork.

Executive producers are me, Ben Bauer, and my friend, Suzanne Campbell.